Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205
03/10/2008 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB214 | |
| HB267 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 214 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 267 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
CSHB 267(RES)-WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT
4:08:33 PM
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS announced CSHB 267(RES) to be up for
consideration.
4:09:43 PM
JEANNE OSTNES, staff to Representative Craig Johnson, sponsor of
HB 267, said this bill allows the Alaska Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G) to follow the same compact provisions as used for
people who have lost their driver's license. The Wildlife
Violator Compact provides that if you lose a hunting or fishing
license in one state, you're not going to be able to go to
another state to get another one. Alaska is the number-one
state for people to come to hunt and fish in.
Every state has the same compact language, so Article 1-12
cannot change substantially. That is why sections 2 and 3 at the
end of the bill deal with Alaska statutes. She said she had a
slide show available that was based on information provided by
Al Cain, Criminal Justice Planner, Division of Sport Fish,
Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
4:11:43 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked for her to go through an expedited version
of the slide show.
4:12:06 PM
MS. OSTNES said the Wildlife Violator Compact (WVC) is patterned
after the driver's license provision that was started in 1985 by
Nevada and Colorado. Oregon joined the Compact in 1989. Showing
a picture of two Missouri poachers who were convicted of taking
a big horn ram without licenses in Wyoming, she said that is
mainly why this legislation was developed. They were fined and
lost their privileges for 10 years. Had Missouri been a part of
the compact, they would have lost their licenses in all of the
member states. She showed other incriminating pictures remarking
that these violators always seem to take pictures of themselves
and take the evidence home.
She said that the compact keeps poachers revoked in one state
from hunting in other states. Each state treats the out-of-state
conviction as if it had occurred there. She said the compact is
making a difference in terms of enforcement staying in the
field. An officer could hand a citation to a non-resident
violator versus arresting him, which is what happens currently.
In this case the non-resident must be taken by an enforcement
officer and, usually, flown to some place that has a magistrate.
If they are out in the bush, they would have to fly to McGrath
or Bethel.
If the compact becomes law, the non-resident violator would be
given a citation. Not answering it would be a violation and
their license would be taken away. Each state treats the
conviction as if it occurred in their own state, so the
administrator would have the ability to make some decisions on
whether the license would be revoked. The violator has the due
process available to him to go before a court in all states.
4:16:07 PM
MS. OSTNES explained that failure to appear is a violation, and
the home state, which is the residence of the violator, would
notify the violator that his license had been suspended until
the terms of the citation were complied with. The revocation
information is held in a database and each state would enter its
own information.
MS. OSTNES noted zero fiscal notes and she said the DPS said it
wouldn't add a lot work. States that belong to the compact would
be able to view the violations.
4:17:19 PM
She said the Utah DPS has passed data entry off to a private
company that has made the software compatible with all the 28
different states. This has saved the company so much money in
personnel time that it provides this service free of charge.
Since Alaska has drawings for hunts, this kind of information
would be finalized before the drawing to prevent any revokee
from obtaining a license in their state. She said there are now
5,000 names in the compact database, and nearly 17,000
individuals have at one point had their licenses revoked through
the compact. Fifty percent of the licenses were revoked due to
big game violations.
The DPS has indicated that it takes just three minutes to enter
the data. Mr. Cain said that there was a high of 1,873 violators
entered into the compact database in 2003, but that went down a
little in 2004, which he hoped indicated the compact was
effective.
4:19:51 PM
She said 46 percent of violations involve big game; others
involve waste of game, small game, safety issues, license
transfers and false information on the license. Since the first
month of this year, 30 people had lied on their licenses; seven
were from out of state.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what threshold would cause the vacation of
licenses in other states.
MS. OSTNES replied whatever the other state's law is. The
violator can go before his state's administrator, whether it's a
big game commission or a fish and game administrator, and they
would discuss whether that violation equaled in their state what
the violation was from the other state. She just read that in
another state an 18-year old who for the second time had been
caught shooting fawn deer; this time he killed three fawns on
Christmas Eve. They took his license for life even though some
people felt that was a little strong, but it was his second
offense and it was the state's decision.
4:21:58 PM
She explained that each state's chief or licensing authority
shall appoint a compact administrator; in Alaska, the licensing
authority is identified as the Department of Public Safety (DPS)
even though licensing is administered through the Department of
Fish and Game. All the other states have a licensing authority
that also does the enforcement. The compact has annual meetings
and the public safety officers that go to the annual meeting
anyway meet at the same time.
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER asked who would enter the information.
MS. OSTNES replied the public safety officer.
SENATOR WAGONER asked if that wouldn't be after a trial, because
names should be entered unless they are found guilty.
MS. OSTNES replied they would have to be identified as having
their license revoked.
SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't see how this would have any
affect on people who were poaching game. They don't care anyway.
MS. OSTNES agreed, but said that it allows enforcement to give a
citation and stay in the field rather than having to make an
arrest and look for a magistrate.
4:24:35 PM
She said that Nebraska recognizes that hunting and fishing
licenses have been revoked from other states, but it is not a
member of the compact. Oklahoma had legislation introduced at
one time; Missouri isn't in at this point and Texas is
considering it.
4:26:09 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked how this applies to the different species;
Alaska has polar bears and walruses. Alligators may be
elsewhere, for instance and, "Is that a free ride?"
MS. OSTNES replied no; a polar bear would probably be identified
as big game and other states would identify something in their
statutes that would be equal to big game.
4:26:53 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if the database has expungement
provisions.
MS. OSTNES replied that that expungement is not in this bill; it
is part of the database that the Interstate Wildlife Violator
Compact (IWVC) administrators have control of.
4:27:51 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE recommended inserting the laws into the statute
itself that will govern entering and removal of information into
the database.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked where language in the bill shows the length
of time or some parameters for how long someone's license would
be revoked in Alaska.
MS. OSTNES replied it's not in the bill; it's actually in our
statutes already.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked her to go to the list of states.
MS. OSTNES found the list: in 2006/7 Mississippi, Illinois,
Tennessee, Florida, and New York came on; in January 2008 Iowa
th
came on. Alaska would be the 28 state.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked the parameters for suspension of hunting
privileges in Alaska.
4:30:17 PM
CAPTAIN BURKE WALDRON, Alaska Wildlife Troopers, Department of
Public Safety (DPS), asked if he meant how violators are treated
in Alaska or how people who are in the compact will be treated.
CHAIR HUGGINS replied for Alaska first and then how people will
be treated by the compact.
CAPTAIN WALDRON said that currently license revocations for
violations committed in Alaska are handled through the court
system. There are no offenses that warrant an automatic
revocation of a license, but a few statutes commonly would get
someone's license revoked such as for hunting in a closed season
or taking over-limit. Revocations are typically for 1-3 years,
but 10 years was the most time and that was a condition of
probation.
The administrator would enter that person into the database and
include when the period of revocation would end. This would be
the same for people coming to Alaska.
4:33:53 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS posed the question of crows that are a migratory
bird and legally protected in numerous compacts, but at "the
crow capital of the world" in Oklahoma, you can kill them by the
hundreds. If you shoot a crow in Juneau, you have to use the
feathers, eat the meat and all sorts of things. "How do you
connect those two?"
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied the connection would be if the person is
convicted, would the court in Alaska see that offense as
egregious enough to revoke privileges. If that person's
privileges were revoked, his name would go into the database and
Oklahoma, assuming it is a member state (which it is not), would
honor that revocation. That is similar to the drivers' license
compact in that Alaska honors every other state's revocations
regardless of whether it was an offense Alaska wouldn't revoke
for in the first place. He said many states in the Lower 48
revoke someone's license for unpaid speeding tickets; Alaska
does not. However, if someone from New Mexico has their license
revoked for an unpaid speeding ticket and they drive in Alaska,
they will get charged with driving on a suspended and revoked
driver's license and the DMV will not issue that person an
Alaska driver's license until they correct their misdeeds in New
Mexico.
CHAIR HUGGINS followed up saying that federal species
historically have a severer punishment and asked if that would
be taken into account.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that wouldn't be taken into account any
more than at present if the compact language is passed.
4:38:46 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't see a report of any conviction or
any punishment dolled out when two men "literally slaughtered a
bunch of musk oxen" here about three years ago. If we're not
going to punish our own people for egregious acts, why should we
do it for other states, he asked. He also asked if he knew of
that case's final outcome.
CAPTAIN WALDRON responded that he didn't know about that case's
final outcome. He assured Senator Huggins that if there is
enough evidence to file criminal charges, they present that
evidence to the prosecuting attorney and request that he follow
through with the charges. Often, for a variety of reasons, they
don't get the convictions they would like to see.
SENATOR WAGONER asked him to research whether Alaska's system
works or not.
4:41:30 PM
MS. OSTNES said once an Arizona court did not get the 180-day
notification out in time to the violator who said he didn't get
his due process. The court chose the violator compact law over
the state law dealing with what was a paper failure. The compact
law has a stronger application in the eyes of the court system.
SENATOR WAGONER said he understands the program, but Alaska
needs to be very cautious. If somebody charges a citizen with a
crime outside of Alaska's jurisdiction, that person can be
extradited and the governor might choose to not stop it.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if someone in Alaska shoots a black bear,
for instance, and takes the hide out of the state, what act do
they violate.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied the Lacey Act.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if they should be sensitive to having any
Lacey Act violations or prosecutions in Alaska versus other
states. Other states treat it differently than Alaska does, and
we would have to honor that.
4:45:12 PM
CAPTAIN WALDRON responded that when someone is hunting in any
state, that person is required to know its laws and regulations
along with the cost of their violation. He said that poachers
are very mobile; they don't care what's important to the state
they are in. They will come to Alaska and violate our laws, too.
For them it's not about sportsmanship. People call the
department and want to know if Alaska is part of the compact
because they can't hunt in those states. Right now the
department doesn't have the means of knowing if their license
has been revoked in any other state. The compact's published
list would be readily available to enforcement here.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if it also applies to fish.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied yes.
SENATOR WAGONER asked how that list would be made available to
the license vendors.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that issue hadn't been resolved, because
the state's licensing system isn't computerized yet.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAIG JOHNSON explained when you apply for a
license you sign an affidavit saying it hasn't been revoked in
any other state, subject to a one-year penalty and a $10,000
fine. It can be tracked under the compact, but not without it.
SENATOR WAGONER asked if it is a felony.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied no; it's an unsworn falsification - one
year in jail and a $10,000 fine.
CHAIR HUGGINS said he supported the essence of the compact and
asked if the Department of Law had any other concerns.
KEVIN SAXBY, Senior Assistant Attorney General, Department of
Law (DOL), answered that he didn't have any concerns, but was
available to answer questions. He said he is in communication
with his compatriots in other states and they haven't outlined
any particular problems with implementing the compact and the CS
takes care of potential commercial fishing issues.
4:52:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON reiterated this bill would protect Alaska
much more from outside hunters than it would from Alaskans going
outside to hunt. The department needs the ability for an officer
in the field to issue a citation and not have to leave the field
to find a magistrate to administer it to an out-of-state person.
Alaska is subject to more poachers than any other state in the
country and this is another tool the department can use to keep
those people from coming to Alaska, and when they do come, to
have a bigger hammer to deal with them.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to share any questions that were brought
up in previous committees of referral that caused him to do some
research.
4:53:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON explained that he dealt a little bit with
the Boards of Fisheries, Game and Guides. It was determined that
one couldn't be a big game guide without a license; so if you
lose your license, you lose your ability to be a guide. He said
commercial fishing had been discussed in relation to the
compact, but it was decided to take it out for now, because it
is not appropriate for the existing members of the compact. But
it would be something to look at in the future. The greatest
concern he found is the state losing control of its game, but he
had been assured from legislative legal that the state would
still be in control of its game. Nothing that happens in the
other states would affect how the state would manage its game or
subsistence.
MS. OSTNES added that one person wrote a letter saying the
compact was unconstitutional, but legislative legal said it was.
She said the question came up of if you would still have a
conviction after being cited and paying the fine. The answer had
to be yes.
4:55:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said that particular instance was
specifically a contract situation where the guide was looking at
one animal and he client was looking at the other and shot it.
The citation was issued, but the license wasn't revoked because
they did everything right; they turned the animal over to ADF&G.
That client worked for a company whose policy it was to not
allow citations, so he was going to have to fight the citation.
It had nothing to do with the compact.
SENATOR WAGONER asked whose responsibility it is to ascertain
completion of a sentence and who purges the name from the list
and makes sure the database is updated on an often-enough basis
so that all of a sudden someone who comes here to hunt and isn't
still on the list.
CAPTAIN WALDRON answered that each state appoints a license
administrator who makes sure entries are made on time. The
actual published list of revocations includes a start and finish
date, which anyone accessing the list can see. He said the list
doesn't publish convictions, just the revocations and the period
of revocation. The list is on a website that is accessed by a
password.
4:59:56 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he was saying that vendors would have
access to the list.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied not right now; only the Department of
Public Safety and a few people in ADF&G would have access to it
because licensing is not yet computerized.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he is in Cold Bay and wants to buy a
license to go duck hunting and the vendor has no way of
checking, how long would it take for someone to close the loop
to detect that he was hunting elk in New Mexico and got a
violation and his license was suspended a year ago.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied conceptually it's possible that
occasionally that loop wouldn't be closed, but if the trooper
checked a person's license in the field, he could follow up with
the database after the fact. If his license had been revoked,
the trooper could either try to contact the person again in the
field or follow up with a criminal investigation and criminal
charges for hunting without a valid license and unsworn
falsification. If that person had already absconded back to New
Mexico, the citations would follow that individual. If the
individual didn't respond, his name would be entered into the
database as being nonresponsive to the citation, and through due
process in New Mexico, that person's privileges would be revoked
until he addressed his citations in Alaska.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked under that scenario, if you're not checked
by an agent, what's the likelihood that someone would be able to
detect that the purchased license was invalid.
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that it's not done often. Typically,
wildlife troopers take many of the license books from their
vendors during the winter months and check them then; they are
called "residency investigations." Thirty of those have been
filed since January 1. This would add lying about residency to
those residency investigations.
5:04:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said that enforcement would only get
better from getting the computerized capability that would allow
them to run the check before issuing the license. Internet
connectivity is not a good reason to not proceed with the
program because of all the other benefits it offers like the
ticketing of the violator in the field and answering in the
affirmative the calls received from out of state asking if
Alaska is a member of the WVC.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to explain again about ticketing in the
field.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said if Alaska were to become a compact
state, a citation could be issued for an out-of-state violation
in the field without having to transport the violator to a
magistrate. That officer could then stay in the field and do his
job. Some of the locations are very remote and it's a full day
to the magistrate. If the person skips out on the citation, he
could be found in his home state and go on the list.
CHAIR HUGGINS said CSHB 267(RES) would be held.
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